BROWN, Mr Sean, Committee Member, Citizens of Tottenham DEMJANCUK, Mrs Samantha, Private capacity GLOVER, Ms Jacqui, President, Citizens of Tottenham SIBELLE, Mr Maurice, Founding Member and Active Participant, Say No to the Proposed Plumpton AI Data Centre Committee met at 09:35 CHAIR ( Senator Hanson-Young ): Welcome. I declare open this second hearing of the Senate Environment and Communications References Committee's inquiry into artificial intelligence and data centres. I begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land upon which we meet and pay our respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people here today. These are public proceedings being audiostreamed via the Parliament House website, and a Hansard transcript is being made. If there are no objections, we have media in the room today. You know the rules about where you're allowed to shoot from and not, so let's try and all manage in this space, which is a bit echoey, so, if we need to get people to repeat things, we will. I remind all witnesses that in giving evidence to the committee they are protected by parliamentary privilege. It is unlawful for anyone to threaten or disadvantage a witness on account of evidence given to the committee, and any such action may be treated by the Senate as contempt. It is also a contempt to give false or misleading evidence. The committee generally prefers evidence to be given in public, but, under the Senate's resolutions, witnesses can ask for evidence to be given in a private session. The Senate has resolved that an officer of a state department shall not be asked to give opinions on matters of policy and shall be given reasonable opportunity to refer questions asked to superior officers or to a minister. The resolution does not preclude questions asking for explanations of policies or factual questions about how and when policies were adopted. Of course, if a witness objects to answering a question, they should state the ground upon which that objection is made and the committee will determine whether we insist on an answer having regard for the reasons for that claim. If the committee determines to insist on an answer, a witness may request that the answer be given in camera. I remind senators of their obligations under the Behaviour Code for Australian Parliamentarians to treat all witnesses with dignity, courtesy, fairness and respect. For those who take questions on notice, our return date for questions on notice will be Wednesday 7 October. I understand information on parliamentary privilege has been given to you. Would you like to make an opening statement? Mrs Demjancuk : Good morning. Today we are speaking on behalf of the Plumpton action group. Through our engagement with locals, we've heard concerns from hundreds of people in relation to the hyperscale AI data centre proposed for Plumpton. Concerns include power usage, water consumption, heat generation, fire and safety risk, pollution, and green wedge land use. The community have very valid concerns about the proximity to residential housing, schools and kindergartens and the effects on health and property value. They're concerned about the cost-of-living impacts and the shift of investment to data centres rather than things we need, like housing and infrastructure. As parents, we have broader concerns about what data centres are facilitating. We think there is no control of the collection and use of data. We have concerns about the private appropriation of human achievements, threats to our democracy and sovereignty. There is a power imbalance here. On one side, we have some of the richest people in the world with unlimited resources, and, on the other, we have unpaid volunteers like ourselves trying to protect our communities. Federal and state governments seem to be backing the data centre industry while sidelining local councils and keeping communities in the dark. We need our government to ensure that the interests of Australians are protected. Data centre developers have shown that they do not care about the negative impact that their industry has on everyday Australians. Data centre lobbyist Belinda Dennett herself has admitted she wouldn't want to live near one. We do not understand how our government is refusing to answer valid community concerns and at the same time expects us to happily sacrifice our neighbourhoods, our environment, our resources and our health and carry the financial burden so data centre developers and big tech companies can cash out. We need to pause, assess and regulate. Mr Brown : Citizens of Tottenham is not an anti-AI or anti-data-centre group. We're a community group. But what we have in our area is NEXTDC M3 and also another approved data centre, the Perri Melbourne Data Centre, 200 metres down the road. Our area has around 700 homes in it and 2,500 people who live there. NEXTDC M3 is an AI hyperscale data centre, which is currently approved to build up to 225 megawatts, with an application pending to go up to 320 megawatts. For context, that's more power draw than all the houses in the western suburbs. I tried to find a regional city of a similar size, but I couldn't. So this is intensive industrial use of land, and it's right next to homes. The closest homes are 15 metres across the road, such as Jacqui's home herself, right there. There are also playgrounds and kindergartens very nearby. We're here to provide the lived experience of what it's like when an AI hyperscale data centre is built so close to homes and explain what it's like to live there. Some of the impacts we've experienced are noise and constant light. They're highly secure facilities. They constantly run 24/7. There are also air quality impacts from the running of diesel generators. They are there for emergency backup, but they do run on a regular basis for testing, and we have experienced extended periods of them running. Also, the construction impacts are very intense. I think it's probably one of the largest, most intense building sites in Melbourne. Expecting a community to live through that for years, for a building which is just going to make the area worse to live in, is quite a lot. That's us as the Citizens of Tottenham. CHAIR: Thank you. We were in Sydney yesterday speaking to the local community in Lane Cove, who have all very similar concerns. I just want to let you know that so far everything that you've said is very in line and consistent with what other communities are feeling. What I would like to know is, firstly, what type of community consultation you have had thus far from the AI data centre companies. Then, of course, I'm keen to understand the impacts that any consultation with state government has had. Ms Glover : For us personally, initially the site opposite, where the M3 is now, was empty for quite a long time, and initially it was going to be small warehousing. We heard about the planning of this data centre as late as 2020, I think. Construction commenced on 31 May 2021. Initially, we received some information from the council about the planning process. We received other information from the council in December 2021 about the lighting from the data centre itself, and then we've had no further consultation until March 2026. So we've had nothing. Consultation with the community past that point has been minimal. We've had probably more information from the construction company. To begin with, they were great. They were sending out information about the planning, what was going to be happening and the different stages of the development. That fell away fairly rapidly after probably 12 months, and then we didn't hear anything from anybody. So we've been kept in the dark pretty much the whole time. Mr Brown : The other data centre that has been approved, PMDC, was done through the Development Facilitation Program. The notification we got was a sign on the fence, which I didn't notice. I was looking after a six-month-old at the time. That's it. That was the community consultation that we got—a sign and a QR code. I didn't even notice it, and I walked past it probably quite regularly. For the expansion of NEXTDC M3, it was the same, and some of the signs were put in inaccessible locations. That's it. Ms Glover : They were, yes, and they were only seen by members of our community while they were walking their dog, because they were in such a strange—they were not prominently displayed on Indwe Street, which is front and centre. I wanted to add that I noticed a bit of the planning, when this all kicked off, was around Christmas time, so a lot of people were away. They didn't have an opportunity to see the boards and weren't consulted or informed. Mrs Demjancuk : We haven't had any intentional community consultation. There was a night where we were hosting a community meeting in Diggers Rest, and, while I was speaking, I did spot Syncline Energy's CEO sitting in the back, which was a bit of a shock for everyone in the room. It's my understanding that between—we've heard the number 20, but we've also heard the number 70. A number of these letters have been handed out in the Hillside community. I have spoken to Phil Galloway, and he said he wants to do an intentional community consultation after the election because he believes the resistance against data centres is purely a political issue and it will go away after the election. Mr Sibelle : In addition, in our work, we've been doing a lot of lobbying of our council, and we've been asking the council for information. They also have no information. They've not been able to tell us anything about the proposals or what their impacts are. To be honest, sometimes you can put up a notice saying you're going to put up a data centre, but most people don't know what that means. I think that's where we, as the Plumpton action group, have played a big role in trying to explain the impacts of it. We've produced brochures like this which explain the impacts for water, electricity, the cost of living and heat. Heat is a big issue. So there's not been the information for people to actually make a decision about whether they support it or even to think, 'How is it going to affect me?' CHAIR: I think part of the concern there then must be that you don't even know what you should be concerned about. Mr Sibelle : That's it. CHAIR: It sounds as though that's what— Mr Sibelle : We do now, actually, and we are very concerned. And we're more concerned because we think that a lot of it's happening behind closed doors, and we don't have a seat at the table. CHAIR: There is a growing theme of a lack of transparency with these facilities, not just in the development of them but then once they're up and running as well. Ms Glover, you said you live 15 metres across the road. Ms Glover : Correct. CHAIR: Is that your backyard or your front yard? Ms Glover : Front yard, yes. CHAIR: Fifteen metres is extraordinarily close. State government announced yesterday that they would consider new rules around 150 metres. Do you think that's enough? Ms Glover : No, not at all. For example, the diesel emissions are not going to stop at 150 metres. It's a step in the right direction, but it needs to go much, much further. And it's too late for us; the horse has already bolted. We've lived with this for five yeas. It's far too close to homes. That's all I can say, really. It's ridiculous. It should never have been built in the first place. CHAIR: Fifteen metres is extraordinarily close. It's literally across the road. Ms Glover : It's as far as where you're sitting, pretty much. CHAIR: You mentioned the constants—the constant noise, the constant light. Ms Glover : Yes. CHAIR: As residents, have you had a talk about how to deal with that amongst yourselves? Ms Glover : We have, haven't we. Mr Brown : Yes, we have. Ms Glover : For us, I would describe it as a low-level humming noise 24/7. On a windy day—there are tanks on the side of the building on the Indwe Street side, and when the wind blows in a certain direction, it sounds like a car doing a burnout. It's a very loud screeching noise. We sleep with a white noise machine on every night not just for the humming but for the other background noise that goes with it. There's 24/7 security on site. There are 80 security guards. It's impacted our lives in so many ways. The noise, the light pollution at night—the lights are always on. I joke that the lights are on and no-one's home. Living that close is hard to describe. It's just constant, looming over us 24/7. CHAIR: You mentioned the diesel backup. We understand that most of these facilities have diesel backup if indeed the grid trips or falls over. The testing—I want to understand how frequently you experience that as residents. Mr Brown : I'll take that one. That's another thing we'd love a lot more transparency on. There's no official documentation that tells us how often, for how long and under what load conditions the diesel generators run. We just have to guess. Based on some reports I've found done by NEXTDC's consultants, it's one hour per month per generator and then up to four hours sometimes. There's an extended test run. That's the closest thing I can find for— CHAIR: So sometimes they're running for four hours? Mr Brown : Yes. I've got a specific event I can tell you about in a moment. Based on some general research on how often diesel generators need to be run for testing purposes, it's generally one hour per month, particularly for a tier 4 data centre. Different tiers mean higher levels of redundancy. Tier 4 is the highest you can get. It pretty much never goes down; it constantly runs. That's what NEXTDC M3 is, and it has a very significant testing regime. As far as observations of how often we've seen them run, I've probably seen them run myself about five or six times this year. That's including some power outages, but also just testing—just randomly turning on. On Friday 21 August, which also happens to be my wife's birthday, so I remember the date very well, all the diesel generators that are installed, currently about 30, ran all day from about 8.15 in the morning to 5 pm—all day, all of them. I can see them from my window. I can see the exhaust shimmer, the heat. I can see it. Luckily for me it was a westerly, so it was blowing it away from my house. There was no warning—nothing. We just had to guess. We have it in our community WhatsApp group. Part of dealing with the diesel generator emissions is people saying, 'Oh, the generators are running.' We have to tell—there's no idea. There have been times when I've gone for a walk, particularly with my son, and then all of a sudden I see one of the diesel generators turn on. It's not really where you want to be with a young child, so there have been times when I've literally had to turn around and walk home. Once again, there's no transparency on it. We don't know. I don't think there are any filters on them; I don't know. I don't know what tier engine they are or how efficient these engines are. There's very little information available on it. CHAIR: It's interesting. Yesterday we walked through one of the facilities. We saw the generators, and we were told about the testing, but at no stage did anybody say that they would test for up to four hours, let alone all day. I think we do need some transparency in relation to that. I'm going to hand over to questions to other senators. Senator Ghosh, are you there? Do you have any questions? Senator GHOSH: I am. I think some of the matters have been covered already, but what are the things you would need to be satisfied about or is there a list of matters that would make you comfortable having a data centre site in your area with the appropriate geographic buffers? CHAIR: Senator Ghosh, I'll just repeat that so that it's clear. Senator GHOSH: Yes, please. Sorry. I can hear the echo. CHAIR: That's okay. I think what Senator Ghosh is asking is: what are the parameters that you think are needed or that you would be satisfied with in order to see a data centre approved? Mr Brown : This is based on our experience. Just one thing—not all data centres are the same. We're predominantly talking about AI hyperscale data centres, very large ones, so I'm just going to keep my comments to what we have. Based on our lived experience, how we've experienced the diesel generators, what it's like and how large these facilities are, I think at least at a bare minimum they should be 500 metres away from homes at a minimum. I think it's probably more likely a kilometre if you're going to look at what the diesel emissions mean to local residents. Also, there just has to be transparency. We get it. It has diesel generators. It's going to run. Don't just leave us guessing. Tell us when you're going to run them. We understand you can't predict a power outage, but tell us when you're running them. Give us notification when you're going to do a test run. If you're going to do an extended eight hour run of your diesel generators, maybe tell us a few days before. It's just real basic things like that, which I'm surprised aren't already part of the transparency. Also, look where we are. There's literally nothing for our community. Yes, I think a small cafe has been built, but that's it. There's no community benefit scheme for us. We deal with a lot of negative externalities, and we literally get nothing. So something in that space would be good. What that looks like, I don't know. Also, particularly for our area—and this is not to make us comfortable for a data centre to be there—we do need remediation for where we are. I might be getting a bit ahead of myself, but this data centre shouldn't have been here. They're the main ones that we can think of: investment in community benefit scheme and managing the construction much better. These aren't small things. If they're going to be built near homes, it just needs to be better. We shouldn't have our roads dug up probably 20 plus times. Ms Glover : The street's been dug up 21 times— Mr Brown : The same street. Ms Glover : over five years. Mr Brown : Yes, it's just constant. They're the main things. I'd also like to see some evidence for buffer zones as well. What is that based on? That's all I can think of. Mr Sibelle : One of the things the conversations we've had is sometimes we are asked these sorts of really technical questions, and we're supposed to come up with the parameters on which these data centres will be built. We're often asked these questions, and the way we answer it is that the benefits have to outweigh the costs. The benefits need to outweigh the costs to the community. What that means is that, when you look at it, it's not just moving it 150 metres, 200 metres, 300 metres or whatever. We've got to look at the other aspects of it. What are these things being used for, and are those benefits better? Are they creating jobs? Are they doing good for the community in some way? I did some research last night to work out just how much data—look, I'm not a technician, right? But I worked out that the ATO, for example, has 52 petabytes or gigabytes of data or whatever. Then I also worked out how many racks it needs. It needs about 150 racks. The data centre at Plumpton is going to have 250,000 of those things, right? Well, it can house that many right now. You just wonder. They keep telling us we need data centres for searches on our Google Maps or whatever. We need data centres for this and that and commercial usage. But, even if you look at the big areas, it doesn't make sense to have such large data centres. There's a usage there. And I believe that the government, people with more expertise than I have, need to look at it and say, 'Is this a community benefit?' From our perspective, where we're sitting at the moment, we don't see the benefits. We don't see the jobs. We don't see the amenity. We see the ugly monstrosities. That's what these things are. It doesn't seem to be a benefit for us, so we're not that in favour of them. CHAIR: I can hear that. Senator Henderson, have you got any questions? Senator HENDERSON: Good morning to you all. I just get the sense that the west of Melbourne has been completely disregarded. It's almost like it's fine for western Melbourne to not get enough infrastructure investment and not get the love, frankly, that you deserve. You're almost treated like second class citizens. I just want you to particularly respond to Ben Carroll's announcement of the new policy on data centres. You may have already addressed this, but it just seems to me that's all very trivial and too late. The horse is largely bolted, and I imagine it won't be retrospective. I'm pretty cynical, and I imagine you are as well. Mrs Demjancuk : We are. This sustainable data centre action plan—we've actually had local MPs such as David Ettershank who have been calling for the full release of this report for almost 12 months. It has been taken to the Legislative Assembly, where they voted unanimously to have the full report shown to the public. However, three weeks later, the Attorney-General provided a letter stating that the government didn't need to supply the public with this sustainable data centre action plan. It wasn't until yesterday that Carroll finally took the initiative to produce this plan, and we are still waiting for action. It is missing the action part of the plan, despite having the word 'action' in it. We still are told that we have to wait until the beginning of 2027 before any legislation is being passed. So we have a DFP program which is fast-tracking data centre approvals in as little as 28 or 75 days, but we still have to wait until early 2027 for legislation for any of these great ideas to come into effect. It is a joke that it cost $5.5 million to come up with these genius ideas such as not putting these data centres next to residential houses, schools and kindergartens. It took $5.5 million of taxpayers' money to come up with ideas like not using drinking water for data centres. It took $5.5 million for this plan to come up with the genius idea that data centres need to provide their energy to not impact our grid. That is a joke. Tell me how I can get that job because I would do it for a lot less. Unidentified speaker: You're right about the neglect. Senator HENDERSON: Ms Glover, do you want to add to that at all? Ms Glover : I mentioned this before. I heard that announcement, and, for us, it's too little too late, basically. We've been treated appallingly. We just seem to get it all the time. If it's not industrial fires or data centres being put up—I have two within 100 metres of my home. It's just insane. I echo what Samantha says. It's not good enough, and it doesn't go far enough. The fact that we've dreamed up this figure of 150 metres for these data centres doesn't stop the diesel emissions. That's not going to stop at the 150-metre boundary. It's crazy to me. CHAIR: I just want to pick up on the criticism. You said this is a plan that says it's an action plan, but there's no action in the plan. Can I just ask you to expand on that? Mrs Demjancuk : We've been waiting for almost 12 months for this plan to be presented to the public, but when we got to review the plan yesterday we were told we need to wait until early 2027. That is a delayed response. That is a delayed reaction. We've still got to wait again, even though they're fast-tracking approval processes. This is why a moratorium is so important. We need to stop until legislation can catch up to the approval rates. Mr Sibelle : It's not legislation. It's a statement of intent before an election, which is really what that's about. I think you're right about the west being neglected. Some of the community infrastructure funds set up by the companies keep tempting us with a swimming pool, a bus service, a railway station, fixing the road, which everyone in the area around Plumpton is really pissed off, sorry—concerned about. They promise us that they are going to do that with their community infrastructure fund. You know what strikes me about it? Isn't that the thing that the government's supposed to be doing anyway? Shouldn't we have those services provided? My view is: pay your tax, let the government do it and then let's talk about the data centre separately. We don't need inducements to support your project. What we need to see is whether those projects are in our interests. Senator HENDERSON: I want to refer to an article published on the 27 November 2025 in the Fin Review. The headline is 'Allan'—as in Jacinta Allan—'vows "ruthless" campaign to make Victoria the data centre state'. The first paragraph is: Premier Jacinta Allan has vowed to be ruthless about attracting more data centres to Victoria as she aims to position the state as the national leader in building the infrastructure that powers artificial intelligence. Ben Carroll was set side by side with Jacinta Allan in driving this plan with no guardrails, and I think that's the big concern for communities—no guardrails. And I agree. I think 150 metres is not enough of a buffer when you consider the noise and the other impacts of data centres. I put to you that the fact that this is not going to be legislated if the Carroll government is re-elected—and I personally hope they are not elected—looks to me like a cynical vote-buying exercise. It looks like it's all about politics. It doesn't look like taking these issues seriously. Can I ask, in the west, what the offset is. What's the closest offset between a data centre and residential homes? Have you looked at that or mapped that out? You've got 100 metres from— Ms Glover : I live less than 20 metres away. Senator HENDERSON: Less than 20 metres? Ms Glover : I live across the street from M3. I say this tongue in cheek. We affectionately call our house 'ground zero' because we are on a corner and our corner has had constant disruption for five years. We have another year to go if they get their way, and then we have another one that's been built 100 metres in the other direction. We're just surrounded by this. Mr Brown : To give a bit more in the context of the location, there's Jacqui's house. Along Indwe Street, it's all houses. They're all across the road. It's all about 20 metres. Then there's Cala Street, which is also residential houses. It's not just one or two houses; it's hundreds of houses that are close to this thing. Then there's the kindergarten playground. The second data centre is going to be even closer to those, within hundreds of metres. Senator HENDERSON: Thank you. CHAIR: Senator Hodgins-May. Senator HODGINS-MAY: Thank you so much for joining us here today. I'm going to build on a couple of themes that have already been raised by my colleagues. I think the Tottenham group's submission says that Jemena could receive an estimated $20 to $27 million a year in revenue from the M3 expansion and the community receives nothing—maybe a cafe. I'm interested to hear from you. When these big AI data centres are planning to build in communities, what do you think residents should reasonably get back? I understand it obviously shouldn't be within that 150 metres We haven't seen that modelling. We're waiting to see that modelling. What do you think, if anything, a genuine community benefit package looks like? Mr Brown : That's one thing. Looking particularly at hyperscale data centres close to homes, as a local resident, all the negatives land on you. All the benefits are going elsewhere, and they're pretty significant benefits. I think it should be direct compensation to nearby homes, frankly. I'm all for community benefit schemes, and I'm all for things going to local council and parks. That's great. For the people who actually have to live with it, what that dollar figure is, I don't know. That would need to be modelled and considered. I think there actually need to be direct payments. My understanding, and I'm not an expert on this, is that renewable energy projects do things like this. Why not the data centres in our areas? They're the main ones. I'm all for local employment, local jobs and local sourcing of businesses; a lot of those have already been mentioned and are already included. But it really does need to be acknowledged what it is like when people get impacted—particularly when you're talking about Jemena. It's been a pretty significant issue: the installation of 15-metre-tall cement power poles, which are massive and looming. They've managed to pause them, but eventually they are going to have massive cables through them. That's going to totally industrialise what are residential areas. One thing that hasn't really been mentioned is that, when they get put in, whole streets have their power cut for eight, nine or 10 hours. People don't get that much notification, and they get nothing. They just get their power cut all day for a Saturday or all day for a Sunday. There should be some compensation for that. If Jemena is going to make money from having these data centres, they should recognise it and go: 'You know what? This is imposing a cost on a community and on people. We can give them'—I don't know—'$100 an hour for upgrading so that they can go and do something else.' They can go and have a weekend away and— Unidentified speaker: Escape. Mr Brown : Yes. Senator HODGINS-MAY: To build on the consultation process or lack thereof—I'm thinking specifically about some of the points you've raised about the power imbalance between citizen groups like yourselves, who are often volunteers, having to mobilise against these data centres and the actual tech giants. I've looked at the former premiers diaries that have been opened—meeting with a number of big tech companies. Have you sought meetings with the ministers and/or relevant decision-makers, and have you been responded to? Have they met with you? Mr Brown : When we founded Citizens of Tottenham—we're a community group; it wasn't just about the data centres—we did write to the planning minister. I'm pretty sure it was the start of March, before the whole expansion of NEXTDC kicked off. We didn't hear back. We did hear back from Katie Hall, our local member. We did meet with her a couple of times, and we did manage to secure a meeting with one of the planning minister's advisers. But, so far, that's been it. On the power imbalance, when I found out about this expansion, I looked at all the documentation and I was pretty shocked by what I wasn't finding. There wasn't anything about air quality. There were no environmental impact assessments. There was nothing like that. I pretty much worked on it compulsively for a month. I'm a former public servant. I have a data and research background. I felt like, if the community didn't have someone with my skill set, they wouldn't be able to really dive into this. It just kind of lands on the community to do all this. You've got NEXTDC, and I think it's market capitalisation is, what, $8 billion or $10 billion? I'm not too sure. That's a lot more than what we've got. All we've got is our time. Ms Glover : And it's with a lot of personal sacrifice. Like Sean said, we've spent countless personal hours. There's a lot of stress, a lot of anger and a lot of frustration. We felt a bit alone to start with. We've kind of become this— Unidentified speaker: The furniture. Ms Glover : Yes, and a positive out of all of this—I've said this a few times—is that we've come together as a community, and we're much stronger. Before we knew each other, we'd say hello; now we've galvanised as a community, and we're very proud of that. We've all got different skill sets. None of us have had media training. We don't speak to politicians. This has become a second full-time job for some of us. The toll it's taken, being up against a massive company like NEXTDC—to be frank, I don't care now. We're making noise and making a difference. The dialogue has not been there with them at all. They've never wanted to meet with us, and I have asked many times—up until yesterday. I met with a building contractor and asked, 'When can we meet?' It just never happens. Senator HODGINS-MAY: So an adviser to the planning minister responded after you've met with them, but no minister has ever met with you? Ms Glover : No. Senator HODGINS-MAY: Similarly, for your group, have you? Mrs Demjancuk : No. We actually haven't reached out to the Minister for Planning for a meeting at this stage. However, the Campbellfield action group had a meeting with Sonya Kilkenny, and I was planning to attend that—I RSVP'd. However, the day before, I got an email saying that I had to send in a little statement as to how it would affect me and my house, and I had to live in that jurisdiction. Because I'm out in Diggers Rest, I wasn't able to attend the closed-door meeting. That pivoted at the very last minute. So again, it made it difficult for transparency and accountability. Anastasia is speaking to you later today about that, and I'm sure she'll touch on that meeting. Senator HODGINS-MAY: Finally, you've obviously chosen this suburb to live in and enjoy. It's become very clear through your evidence today that that ability to enjoy your neighbourhood has been severely impeded upon by these projects. Have your house values gone down in price, and are they intended to go further down in price following the extension? Ms Glover : I believe so. There has been some property sold along our street for lower than I think people were expecting. Now, obviously I don't know much about the real estate market and ups and downs and all that sort of stuff, but I think it's a put-off. When people come and look at a house, they're going to look at the house and then. 'Go, well, what's this across the street?' So I think it's a massive deterrent and a big concern. When we moved into the area, a part of the appeal was the fact that it was semi-industrial. We moved 10 years ago. I do get this a lot: people say to me, 'Well, you knew you were moving into an industrial area.' Well, we did; of course we did. There are other factories in our area. There's another one on the other corner from us who are fantastic neighbours. We have businesses all the way up our street—dog training facilities, gyms, food production places—never a problem. So yes, it's definitely impacted our enjoyment of our home, for sure. Mr Sibelle : Just last week we had a public meeting of about 250 people in Hillside. One of the big things that people were really upset about was that exact point. A lot of people have invested in finding a lovely place to live. They've invested in new houses. They're really up to their necks in debt, with mortgages really heating their cost of living. So to then find out that they're going to be right in the middle of the largest data centre in Australia is absolutely scary for them, right? People were really concerned and they've got a right to be. Michelle Bullock from the Reserve Bank is now going to increase interest rates, saying that part of the reason why is because the building of these data centres is taking up all these tradies and pushing up the cost of construction, and that's driving inflation. Well, not only are our houses going to be devalued but we're also going to have to pay more in interest rates on the loans that we've got on those damn houses. So it's really like it's rubbing salt into the wound, and people are feeling it really hard out in those suburbs in Hillside, Plumpton, Fraser Rise, Diggers Rest. That's where all the new families are. That's where the working class people are buying houses that are relatively affordable. What's it going to do? It's going to put people out of houses. CHAIR: Thank you all for your evidence today. I'm sorry that your communities have been put through this, frankly, with such little consultation, such lack of transparency and such disregard for the people who actually live in these communities. If there's anything further that you would like to give to the committee, please send it through to the secretariat and we'll have a look..