CANNAN, Mr Chris, First Assistant Secretary, Global Health and Education Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade COWAN, Mr Gary, First Assistant Secretary, Melanesia Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade DARLINGTON, Mrs Laura, Acting First Assistant Secretary, Pacific Division, Department of Defence GOODCHILD, Ms Tiali, First Assistant Secretary, Skilled and Temporary Visa and Capability Division, Department of Home Affairs HUTTON, Ms Jan, First Assistant Secretary, Pacific Integration Division, Office of the Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade McLEAN, Mr David, Assistant Commissioner, Global Strategy, Australian Federal Police MASON, Ms Naomi, Acting Director, Strategic Treaty Law Advising and Policy, International Law Branch I, Legal Division, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade MOHAMED, Mr Justin, Ambassador for First Nations People, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade TAYLOR, Air Commodore Christopher, General Counsel, Military Law, Department of Defence Committee met at 14:01 CHAIR ( Ms Chesters ): I declare open this public hearing of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties for its inquiry into the Ocean of Peace Alliance and the Fiji-Australia Vuvale union. This hearing will focus on both treaties together, as they were negotiated together and form part of a closely related package of bilateral arrangements between Australia and Fiji. Accordingly, the committee has elected to consider the treaties in one single hearing. I begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land on which we all meet today, and pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging. I also extend that respect to any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who might be joining us today. In accordance with the committee's resolution of 31 July 2025, this hearing will be broadcast, and proof and official transcripts of the proceedings will be published on the parliament's website. I remind all present that, as chair, I will conduct the proceedings in an orderly, respectful and courteous way. I remind all members of the media of the need for fair and accurate reporting of the proceedings of the committee. I now welcome representatives of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Department of Defence, the Department of Home Affairs and the Australian Federal Police to give evidence today. Do you have any comments to make on the capacity in which you appear? Mr Cannan : I am also the Ambassador for Global Health. CHAIR: Although the committee does not require you to give evidence under oath, this hearing is a legal proceeding of the parliament and therefore has the same standing as proceedings of the respective houses. The giving of false or misleading evidence is a serious matter and may be regarded as contempt of parliament. The evidence given today will be recorded by Hansard and attracts parliamentary privilege. It is the responsibility of witnesses to record any questions taken on notice. Would you like to make an opening statement? Ms Hutton : Thank you very much. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to present evidence on the Fiji-Australia Vuvale union treaty and the Ocean of Peace Alliance. Fiji is one of Australia's closest partners. It's a leader in our region and one of only three Pacific island countries with a military. Australia and Fiji have stood shoulder to shoulder in two world wars in deployments to support our region's security and in peacekeeping missions around the globe. We were proud to respond to Prime Minister Rabuka's request to elevate our bilateral partnership. In September 2025, he and Prime Minister Albanese announced our intention to negotiate a bilateral treaty—the Vuvale union. Australia was honoured, during the course of our negotiations, to also accept Prime Minister Rabuka's proposal for the Ocean of Peace Alliance. Taken together, the two treaties represent one of the most ambitious endeavours Australia has undertaken with any country. They are inspired by Prime Minister Rabuka's vision for an ocean of peace—a vision Pacific Islands Forum leaders endorsed in 2025 through the Blue Pacific Ocean of Peace Declaration. Our treaties are the first to answer the call of PIF leaders to operationalise this declaration and embed it at the centre of our relationship. We were honoured to agree to Fiji's proposal to use the Fijian word 'vuvale', meaning 'family', for our partnership. Our Vuvale union is a multigenerational endeavour to integrate our economies, our security and our people. The treaty is guided by three principles—durability, sovereignty and regionalism. It's backed by more than $1 billion of investment over a decade, including grants and loans. Under our Vuvale union, we will elevate our policing and security cooperation, including to combat transnational crime and the illicit drug trade. Australia has committed $181 million to uplift the Fijian police force and to strengthen Fiji's ability to interdict drug shipments at sea. We'll also uplift our health cooperation, supporting Fiji to respond to the fastest-growing HIV outbreak in the world. Under our economic pillar, we will help finance nation-building infrastructure, including ports and major climate adaptation works. We'll back in Fiji's economic diversification agenda, supporting digital infrastructure and skills, enhancing critical infrastructure investment screening and increasing supply chain resilience. At the heart of our Vuvale union is our people. Our multifaith multicultural communities and First Nations peoples share a strong bond. It's this bond that provides the foundation for our treaty. Yolngu elders gifted a Yolngu name for a new part of our bilateral architecture—'bukmak', meaning everyone. The Vuvale bukmak forum will bring together government, traditional faith and business leaders to guide implementation of our Vuvale union and navigate our shared future. At the heart of our two treaties is a shared commitment to Pacific regionalism. Investments under our Vuvale union will flow on to the Pacific family, which relies on Fiji as a regional hub for transport, logistics, education and health care. I'll hand over to Mrs Darlington to provide an opening statement on the Ocean of Peace Alliance. Mrs Darlington : I acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land we meet on today and pay my respects to their elders past, present and emerging. I also pay my respects to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander men and women who have contributed to the defence of Australia in times of peace and war. Thank you for the opportunity to address the committee on the Ocean of Peace Alliance. I will take this opportunity to outline the strategic rationale underpinning the treaty, and the treaty's purpose and scope. Australia's defence partnership with Fiji is grounded in mutual respect, deep people-to-people links between our defence organisations, and a shared commitment to the sovereignty, peace and stability of the Pacific. During negotiations to elevate the Vuvale partnership to treaty level, Prime Minister Rabuka proposed that our countries establish a formal alliance. Australia was honoured to agree. The Ocean of Peace Alliance is a natural step forward, reflecting the strategic trust between our countries and our shared view that, in a more challenging and contested world, we are stronger together. The Ocean of Peace Alliance is Fiji's first alliance and Australia's fourth. As Prime Minister Albanese stated at the joint signing alongside Prime Minister Rabuka, 'The Ocean of Peace Alliance introduces a mutual defence obligation, and there's no higher obligation than to come to each other's aid at a time of need.' The alliance builds on an already substantial defence relationship. Australia and Fiji work closely together across maritime security, the air domain, peacekeeping, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, military education, training, personnel exchanges and infrastructure. The cooperation is exemplified by the Republic of Fiji Military Forces company-sized rotation with the Australian Army. The deployment of 130 Fijian members to Army's 7th Brigade in Brisbane for six months this year enabled our armed forces to further integrate, collaborate and build our collective capacity to respond to our shared security challenges. We look forward to welcoming them back to Queensland in 2027. The Ocean of Peace Alliance formalises our commitment to stand together in support of each other's sovereignty and security and the stability of the Pacific. It also gives practical effect to the Blue Pacific Ocean of Peace Declaration agreed to at the 2025 Pacific Island Forum Leaders Meeting. The alliance is grounded in the Pacific way, including dialogue, consensus, respect for sovereignty and peaceful dispute resolution. The treaty establishes a legally binding framework for mutual defence and security between Australia and Fiji. The treaty complements the Fiji-Australia Vuvale union treaty and the Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the Republic of Fiji on Cooperation in the Field of Defence and the Status of Visiting Forces, which is already in force. Article 1 sets out the treaty's purpose: to protect the parties' sovereignty, secure their mutual defence and security interests and contribute to stability and security in the Pacific. Articles 2 and 3 affirm the shared democratic values between Fiji and Australia and a commitment to peaceful dispute settlement, consistent with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. Article 4 requires the parties, through continuous cooperation, to assist one another to maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to protect their sovereignty and deter and resist external threats and armed attacks. Article 5 requires consultation when a security related development threatens a party's sovereignty, peace or stability. Article 6 recognises that an armed attack on a party within the Pacific would be dangerous to the peace and security of the parties and the Pacific, and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with domestic processes. The mutual defence obligation is similar in nature to Australia's obligations under the ANZUS and Pukpuk treaties. Article 7 requires the parties to develop and maintain appropriate visiting forces arrangements as necessary to support activities under the treaty. The treaty also provides for implementation and consultation mechanisms, good-faith resolution of disputes in a manner that honours the Pacific way, and possible accession by other Pacific states with the unanimous consent and acceptance of the existing parties. The treaty safeguards sovereign decision-making and supports a peaceful, stable and resilient Pacific. It reflects the depth of the Australia-Fiji relationship, the trust between our defence organisations and our shared commitment to regional security. Finally, the 2026 National defence strategy states that the Pacific is vital to Australia's security and prosperity. The Ocean of Peace Alliance responds to government direction in the National defence strategy to invest in our regional security relationships, build partner capacity, uphold sovereignty and ensure Australia remains the ongoing partner of choice of the Pacific family. Thank you. CHAIR: Thank you. Was there anyone else wishing to make a statement? Okay, we'll jump straight into questions. I have a couple before we'll go to Senator Collins. In relation to the mechanics of it, we're going through our treaty review process at the moment. These two treaties have been referred to our committee. Then we'll make a decision and recommendation to parliament, and then the government will go forward from there. What are the steps that Fiji needs to take in relation to these two treaties? Ms Hutton : Fiji obviously has its own domestic treaty processes, and these two treaties are currently going through those, just as they are ours. At the moment, they have a similar committee. They've got a parliamentary committee on foreign affairs and defence issues, and they are holding hearings on the two treaties. At the end of that process, that committee will make a recommendation to the Fijian government. If the recommendation is to proceed to ratify those two treaties, then the government will put those treaties to Fiji's parliament for a decision, in accordance with their domestic treaty processes. CHAIR: Can I ask why, when the Ocean of Peace Alliance was concluded, there was an option to become a multilateral treaty? Is that correct? Why did we stop there and not go further? Ms Hutton : The Ocean of Peace Alliance is a bilateral alliance, but you are correct; it has an accession clause that leaves it open for other Pacific island countries with militaries to accede. That would be subject to the agreement of existing alliance members—so Fiji and Australia. CHAIR: And are there any other countries looking at it at the moment? Are there any other negotiations happening? Will it become a multilateral agreement? Ms Hutton : It'll be a decision for other countries. Obviously, entering into an alliance is one of the highest sovereign decisions that a country could take. The New Zealand government has expressed an interest in considering whether they would like to join the Ocean of Peace Alliance. Foreign Minister Wong has noted that, as a valued alliance partner and defence partner in the Pacific, New Zealand would make a valuable contribution to the Ocean of Peace Alliance. We have held discussions with New Zealand and Fiji on New Zealand's interest in joining the Ocean of Peace Alliance. But, as I said at the start, it would be a sovereign decision for the New Zealand government. CHAIR: Slightly sidestepping for a moment into another area, it's great language that we're talking about—the Ocean of Peace Alliance. But what does that actually mean? I just want a bit more clarity on the difference between security related development and an armed attack. Where does it begin and end where we go in to help each other out? Ms Hutton : I might start and invite Mrs Darlington and Air Commodore Taylor to add. The Ocean of Peace Alliance is exactly as you described it. It's a mutual defence alliance. It deals with defence issues. The Vuvale union is a comprehensive bilateral treaty that's based on three pillars. One of them is security, but that separation is really for the defence elements and the broader security elements. Mrs Darlington might like to add. Mrs Darlington : Yes, I'll start and then I'll let the legal go through a little bit more. Under the Ocean of Peace Alliance, each party recognises an armed attack on the parties within the Pacific would be dangerous to each other's peace and security, and it declares that it would act to meet the common danger. It's not security in general; it's very specifically on an armed attack there. But I might let Air Commodore Taylor expand a little bit further. Air Cdre Taylor : Whether an armed attack has occurred such that the alliance's mutual defence obligations are enlivened would need to be determined on a case-by-case basis. It's very fact specific and would be, obviously, supported by legal advice to the government of the day. The term 'armed attack' is a term well known in international law, and enshrined in article 51 of the UN Charter are the circumstances in which member states have the right to exercise individual or collective self-defence. CHAIR: More broadly, in relation to defence manufacturing and procurement, is there within these two agreements an opportunity to expand into those fields for Australian industry and business? Mrs Darlington : I definitely won't exclude that, but this is an enabling document. While industry has not been specifically called out there, this is an enabling one of closer cooperation between Fiji and Australia. As we get closer cooperation, I think naturally there'll probably be opportunities for industry there. CHAIR: And there's always been a very strong relationship between Australians and Fijians. After Bali, it's the go-to place for family holidays, regardless of where you are in Australia. There's that natural rapport. If this was to stall, what do you think the impact would be on Australia's reputation in the Pacific in particular? Ms Hutton : If the agreements themselves were to stall? CHAIR: Yes. Ms Hutton : I think, as with any treaty, it's a sovereign decision for the parties to that treaty to make their own decisions, in accordance with their own domestic treaty-making processes, on whether to ratify that treaty. Certainly, we have a high degree of confidence. The treaties were negotiated in good faith, as you would expect. And just as we're moving the treaty and putting it through our own domestic treaty making processes, including through today, Fiji is doing the same. Our intention is absolutely to move forward and ratify the treaties. CHAIR: Did at all during the negotiations discussions about people-to-people migration—visas, the Pacific island worker program—come up? Ms Hutton : It did, and it's one of the three pillars of the Vuvale union—economic security and people. And around people is a commitment to really look at how we can strengthen our people-to-people connections and our cultural connections. Ambassador Mohamed, our First Nations ambassador, was involved throughout the negotiations. Certainly, that's how we can strengthen our sporting connections and links but also mobility—how we can make it easier for two-way movement between our countries. Ms Goodchild at the end can speak more to that as well. But, yes, in short, that was part of the discussions. Ms Goodchild : Yes. As Ms Hutton said, it was part of the discussions. There was obviously within that an ask for greater mobility. It was predominantly around the visitor stream for greater mobility. We were able to enhance that for them. Building on the visitor visa subclass 600, we'd look to give Fiji a longer stay period. The standard stay period on a visitor visa is three months. We'd look to increase that to four months for Fijians that are eligible. There's also the validity period. Fiji is, in the Pacific nations, our largest cohort of travellers. Allowing them to not have to apply for multiple visas—moving from a validity period of three years to five years for them—would allow greater travel. And that's being reciprocated for Australians back into Fiji as well. CHAIR: Do we have many other countries that are on that four-month extension, or is it just Fiji? Ms Goodchild : It was part of the treaty for Fiji. CHAIR: It's only Fiji. Ms Goodchild : At this time, yes. CHAIR: It was considered to be necessary, needed or welcomed because we have such a large Fijian Australian community. Ms Goodchild : That's right. CHAIR: What about the Pacific mobility programs, like the visa workers? Are they looking to grow those? Do they have any feedback for us about how that program is going? Ms Hutton : Yes. Our Pacific Australia Labour Mobility scheme is an important existing part of our bilateral relationship. We value it, as does Fiji. The Fiji government, certainly through our Vuvale union, is looking at how we can strengthen our PALM partnership. That's in terms of providing new opportunities, but also a big focus was on skills in our Vuvale union and developing the skills that Fiji needs for its own domestic labour force. We can look to do that through labour mobility, but also there's quite a significant scale-up in the delivery of skills in Fiji. When we talk about our commitment to Pacific regionalism, one of the things Fiji and Australia were both committed to was ensuring that anything that we're doing under our Vuvale union can have a positive flow-on effect for the rest of the region. When it comes to skills, for example, we will develop a number of what we're calling TVET centres of excellence to develop these skills, starting with digital skills, and we both are committed to ensuring that those opportunities are opened up and become available to other Pacific island countries. CHAIR: Were there any specific industries that were flagged as a focus? Ms Hutton : For the skills? CHAIR: The skills and skill development. Ms Hutton : A big focus of priority for Fiji is around digital skills, and we were very pleased to support Fiji in developing the skills but also the infrastructure they need to really move their economy into a more digital economy space. CHAIR: So you're not looking at aged care or health? Ms Hutton : Aged care is already a pathway under our existing PALM scheme, and that's an area where we welcome Fijian aged-care workers. We have committed, under the Vuvale union, to opening up additional opportunities around the care sector—aged care as well as disability care—and, where there are labour market shortages in particular metropolitan areas, to looking at employing Fijian aged-care workers in those areas. CHAIR: Thank you. We'll go to Senator Collins. Senator COLLINS: I might just start with some follow-up questions on the visa issue. We know there was an extraordinary response from Fiji with the Pacific engagement visa. Were there negotiations through the Vuvale union on trying to get more spots through that particular program? Were there discussions around that? I appreciate being able to extend the tourism visa, but, obviously, that doesn't come with work rights, and work rights are such a huge part of the offering that Australia can provide. So is there anything in relation to that? Ms Hutton : I might start and then, again, invite Ms Goodchild to add. At the start of the negotiations, we were, as we are with all of our strategic agreement negotiations, keen to hear from the Fijian government what their priorities were. Obviously, mobility was a key priority. The Fijian government were very clear with us, though, that they were looking at temporary mobility, and that's why the discussion was focused around visitor visas and also the PALM scheme—because, as you know, the PALM scheme is a circular mobility scheme. Ms Goodchild, do you want to add anything? Ms Goodchild : I think, within the treaty, Ms Hutton has covered it off. Obviously, they also participate in the PEV, which is the capped places—3,000 in total—across the Pacific. But they do fill their allocation. On your question about broader skills, the ask from Fiji was around visitor visas, but you will see that, separate to the treaty, there is quite a lot of growth happening within our skilled temporary visa program from Fijians coming into Australia on those normal visa pathways. So, whilst they didn't ask for it as part of the treaty, they are certainly using that pathway. Also, in Suva, we have a Pacific service centre, so we do give priority processing within Suva to Fijians so that we can grant their visas faster to increase mobility. Senator COLLINS: That's fantastic. Thank you. I'm going to start with the defence treaty. Article 5 says: In the event of a security-related development that threatens the sovereignty, peace or stability of a Party … I'm keen to better understand what the security related development actually refers to. How big is the scope on that? Also, specifically, does it include transnational crime and the effects of the drug trade? Mrs Darlington : I'll address it from a Defence point of view, but then I might also throw to AFP on this one, because they're interlinked. It's quite broad, and the thing is that, when we're doing an alliance, we're really stepping up our relationship with a country, and it's built on trust. We believe we've got obligations to keep on consulting. We'll have more trust. We'll have more forums to talk about it. Security is quite wide, so we are expecting that we would address all sorts of things through that clause there for consultation. I think that transnational crime is something that is of vital importance at the moment. It is something that the AFP are really focusing on there. I'd assume that that is slightly covered in article 5. It was looking at it more from a Defence point of view, but there's definitely crossover into the Vuvale as well. Ms Hutton : That's right. If I can add that, under the Vuvale union, we adopt an expanded definition of security, consistent with the Boe declaration. As I said in my opening remarks, the Vuvale union is designed to be an intergenerational agreement, so we very deliberately have developed the treaty in a way that enables us to respond to traditional security threats as well as non-traditional security threats. But, in addition to that, it provides scope for us to continue to cooperate and to strengthen our bilateral security relationships so that we will be positioned to respond to what we call over-the-horizon security threats—new security issues that will undoubtedly emerge that we can't yet see—which is why, in the Vuvale union treaty, you will see a commitment to consult on any matter arising under article 4, which is the peace and security article, at the written request of either party. That's really to ensure that this continues to be a union that can evolve and meet the needs of the time. Mr McLean : To the extent that the alliance addresses security threats and the type of question that was asked, our cooperation is extant, it's ongoing and, certainly, it's in relation to transnational, serious and organised crime. To the extent that that's now considered widely in modern policing as a threat to national security across jurisdictions—certainly across the Pacific—we've no need to formally activate clauses in an alliance or a treaty to increase our rate of effort around any particular problem. As I say, it's ongoing. We've a longstanding presence in Fiji. We're increasing that. We've held a number of significant dialogues over the course of this year, and we've built, over a long period of time, an extensive infrastructure and architecture in and among the Pacific island countries, of which Fiji is a principal actor, a prime mover and a regional hub. So we're not relying on the treaty, in that sense, to be activated in order to provide each other with the partnership, the cooperation and the support to try and tackle transnational organised crime. Senator COLLINS: Thank you. I understand, with the AFP, that there is significant integration across the region in trying to tackle transnational organised crime. I'd like to understand a bit better, through this treaty, how our defence forces are better integrated. I think article 7 talks about visiting forces and arrangements to facilitate and support activities. But is there actually that sort of integration piece? I know we already have personnel that are embedded, but does this take it that extra step to enable more integration? Mrs Darlington : As you rightly put it, that rotational company that comes in here each year is a key step in that integration. But that is exactly what the alliance does. It helps us so that we can plan together, we can train together and we can exercise together. It helps increase that interoperability. The more that we do together, the more we're able to support each other, side by side. Probably what I'm saying is that that alliance is like a framework for us to enact, underneath that, greater planning and enhanced activities together. Senator COLLINS: We'll be able to do exercises in Fiji? The Australian Defence Force will do exercises in Fiji? Mrs Darlington : That would be a matter for Fiji on a case-by-case basis, but that's so far, and this alliance definitely helps enhance that ability. But it's step by step, and we need to enter into some integrated planning with Fiji about how that would take place. Everything in here is a sovereign decision for each of those countries. That includes planning for exercises as well. Senator COLLINS: And there won't be any integrated units created where you have— Mrs Darlington : That's not planned at the moment, but I'm never going to say never. This is an alliance; increased trust and relationships could develop. Senator COLLINS: I have some questions about the Vuvale union. Part (3) of article 4 says: The Parties recognise the following could threaten or undermine the Parties' or Pacific region's individual or collective security: a third party military or other security base, ongoing presence, arrangements or visits. Can somebody expand on that last bit—the 'arrangements or visits'? Ms Hutton : Article 4(3) was crafted very deliberately by Fiji and Australia. We wanted to set out our understanding of some of the things that could threaten or undermine not just our security but also the region's security. 'Visits' go to where there are non-Pacific-island-country parties that are visiting, whether it's for a military visit or another type of visit that has the potential to undermine Fiji's security, our security or the security of the region. What we're signalling with that subarticle is that that is something we would want to consult and work together on to assess the implications of. Senator COLLINS: Alright. Subarticle (4) says: The Parties commit to the enhancement of their individual and collective peace and security through: (a) transformation of their economies to net zero emissions … If, for example, Fiji felt we hadn't closed down enough coalmines or coal power stations et cetera—is that what that's trying to encompass? Can you explain that to me and how much of a sticking point that is? Ms Hutton : The first thing I would say is that the treaty preserves the sovereign decision-making of both parties. Nothing in this treaty would undermine that. In fact, it is designed to strengthen it. Article 4(4) is an articulation of our own understanding that it's through these things, including the transformation of our economies to net zero emissions, that we will be able to enhance our individual and collective peace and security. Senator COLLINS: Okay. What if you had a government that was not focused on net zero? Does that then throw the treaty out? Ms Hutton : The commitment in the treaty—I think, Senator, you're referring to 'transformation of their economies to net zero emissions'. As I'm sure you're aware, Pacific Islands Forum countries themselves have recognised that climate change is the single greatest threat facing Pacific island countries, so, to have a peace-and-security article that didn't address climate change and as part of net zero emissions would be to miss that single greatest threat. The commitment itself is consistent with Australia's international commitments, our legislated net-zero-by-2050 target and our 2035 nationally determined contribution of reducing emissions to between 62 and 70 per cent below the 2005 levels. Senator COLLINS: Okay. Article 6 is about the Vuvale forum. We already have those sorts of forums set up. The article refers to establishing forums co-chaired by the ministers for foreign affairs et cetera. We already do that. We've already got the infrastructure there. We already have those sorts of dialogues, don't we? Ms Hutton : You're right. Our habit and practice have been to have a very close bilateral relationship and regular dialogue. But, when we looked closely at our bilateral relationship in the context of a treaty, we both agreed that there was scope to formalise those arrangements and that the formal architecture that existed didn't really reflect the nature of our bilateral relationship. By formalising that architecture through the Vuvale forum as well as the Vuvale bukmak, the intention is to have that formal government-to-government structure. I would also point out that there's scope to invite traditional leaders, religious community and business leaders to drive not only the implementation of our Vuvale union but also its evolution. We're really taking that ownership and responsibility to continue to develop our bilateral relationship into the future. Senator COLLINS: Ambassador Mohamed, it's been some time since I saw you up in Cairns in my former role. It's nice to see you again, Justin. I want to understand your role in all of this. Are you helping with that aspect of it? What's your participation in this? Mr Mohamed : I've been involved in the negotiation part of the Vuvale treaty, predominantly in that people-to-people space. We've talked about how that forms and how we capture what keeps our two countries together and connected in the things that have woven us together over many, many years. My involvement has come through that, and obviously through the bukmak and through bringing our First Nations into that space. We're also hearing from the Fijian government, and their cultural leaders, too, of how important it is to make sure that our cultural connections are part of this treaty and go hand in hand with it. Senator COLLINS: Terrific. Bringing it back to article 6 on the Vuvale forum, subsection 1 says that the forum will 'lead the progressive deepening and evolution of the Vuvale union'. By those words, you just mean the implementation of the union, right? You don't mean that it's going to evolve into something significantly different? Can I understand that a little bit better, please? Ms Hutton : It is implementation, but the evolution of the Vuvale union is very deliberate. We know we are negotiating an enduring treaty at a point in time, and, very deliberately, we're messaging our shared understanding that our bilateral relationship—our Vuvale union—will continue to evolve and our intention is to continue to deepen it. Really, our inspiration was taken from our closer economic relationship with New Zealand, which, over the course of a century, evolved from a relatively simple trade agreement to a much deeper bilateral relationship. Senator COLLINS: In 4.3, you've got some very specific language in there about the military bases' ongoing military presence, security arrangements and visits by third-country militaries, which could 'threaten the individual or collective security of Australia, Fiji and the Pacific'. This is highly specific language. I think you've done the same in articles 4.5 and 4.6 as well. There's a really extensive list of strategic sectors in there. Is it quite usual to be so specific in these things? What sort of assessments do DFAT undertake to come up with those specificities? Ms Hutton : It is our usual practice—you will have seen in a number of our other treaties, particularly around critical infrastructure—to step out and be more precise about what critical infrastructure is. That's the same practice that we've adopted in this treaty. Senator COLLINS: Did anything delay the negotiations of these treaties? Ms Hutton : No, not at all. In fact, at least from our perspective, on this side of the table, we would say it was a very fast negotiation. You will be aware, perhaps, that our prime ministers, Prime Minister Albanese and Prime Minister Rabuka, announced only in September 2025 our intention to upgrade our bilateral relationship to a treaty. As you know, these treaties were signed on 6 July. I would say they were negotiated in good faith and from a very like-minded, shared-endeavour perspective. CHAIR: How are we going? Senator COLLINS: I reckon I can leave it there. I recognise that other people want to ask questions. Thank you, everyone, for your time and congratulations on the arrangements. CHAIR: We'll jump to the member for Sturt, and, if we've got time, we can come back to you. Ms CLUTTERHAM: I only have a couple of questions. I appreciate your time this afternoon. First, on the Vuvale agreement, at the beginning of your opening statement I think you mentioned that it was $1 billion of grants and loans. I wondered how that process works. Who manages that? What are the grants for? How does repayment work? Could you unpack that a little bit, please. Ms Hutton : Sure. You're correct. It's $1 billion over 10 years to support the implementation of the Vuvale union. Of that, $670 million is in grants and the rest are loans. The loans are focused on building that that nation-building infrastructure. For the loan component, we would do that through our AIFFPP. The grant component is really about implementing our other commitments under the Vuvale union. It covers security commitments, like transnational crime, which we talked about. We've got a Vuvale health partnership, where we're upgrading our health assistance. Our ambassador for health, Mr Chris Cannan, is here and can speak about that. We're boosting our economic relationship. We're, as we've discussed, enhancing our mobility with Fiji. We're supporting Fiji to move to a digital economy, so we're supporting development of digital skills, digital infrastructure as well as those people-to-people links that we discussed—so sport, faith and culture. That $670 million will really be spread across those commitments. Ms CLUTTERHAM: Will Australia have responsibility for managing the effective spend of that grant money? How will we measure whether it's being used properly for the purpose for which it was intended and is actually providing the benefits that it's intended to provide? Ms Hutton : The first thing I would say is that the Vuvale union and the Ocean of Peace Alliance are genuine partnerships. So we're talking about the resources that the Australian government has committed to bring to the table to support their implementation, but, equally, the Fiji government has committed to provide the resources it needs to ensure the effective implementation of our two treaties. Of course, Australia's financial support—our overseas development assistance—will remain subject to all of the legal requirements and obligations we have in Australia. In terms of measuring the effectiveness in implementing our commitments under the Vuvale union, that's really something that the Vuvale forum and Vuvale bukmak will have primary stewardship over to determine how that implementation is going. Ms CLUTTERHAM: What I'm getting is that oversight and governance of the funds themselves will be executed in accordance with our legal obligations that we have onshore in Australia. What does that look like for $670 million? It's a chunk of money, right? Ms Hutton : It is. That will subject to the same legal requirements that we have for all of our overseas development assistance. That won't change. Ms CLUTTERHAM: In the Ocean of Peace agreement, article 2 talked about obligations to strengthen democracies. What does that look like in practice, both from our side and from our partners' side? Mrs Darlington : When we were entering into the Ocean of Peace Alliance, it was very clear from the outset that Fiji wanted to ensure that this agreement stood upon shared democratic values and that that was the foundation of alliances. I think what we're trying to get at there is that we've got shared commitment to free and democratic institutions. That's really a fundamental foundation that this alliance sits on. It's ensuring that that's both embedded in what Australia does and also embedded in what Fiji does. Ms CLUTTERHAM: What is it—free and fair elections is one example. What about other arms of government—how the executive operates, how the judiciary operates? Is that contemplated by the agreement as well? Mrs Darlington : I think it's about all of those: free elections, ensuring that government institutions remain intact, ensuring that fair and due process occurs, and all of those standard democratic values that we as Australians and Fijians really live by and that help ensure that we have a fair and stable and secure nation. Ms CLUTTERHAM: Was that negotiated as a matter of course or because we have concerns that there are deficiencies with democratic processes and institutions in Fiji? Mrs Darlington : It was a matter of course. I think that we can't be blind to the fact that there have been some problems in the past, but it was a matter of course. It was something that Fiji and Australia came to an agreement on, putting in there. Ms CLUTTERHAM: My question might be a little similar to Senator Collins's line of questioning earlier on article 6 on mutual defence and acting to meet common danger. What might be a practical example of how Fiji might act? There's unequal bargaining—different sized populations and resources and militaries et cetera—so what could we reasonably expect? If there's a common danger, is it right that we would, obviously, contribute more to meeting that common danger? Is that widely understood and a corollary of this agreement that we're prepared to accept? Mrs Darlington : The Ocean of Peace Alliance is deliberately not prescriptive about what action would be taken, because that's going to be a matter for governments of each country to determine at the relevant time, based on what capacity they have, what capabilities they have and what else is going on there. So it's really hard to speculate on how exactly that might form. I think that that's why we have kept that open. I also would mention though that we have that deep relationship with Fiji and that they have been, at times, here to help us as well—floods, fires, all of those types of things. They are a regional leader and involved with the Pacific Response Group already, which is an initiative that we've got that is part of the whole of Pacific. I probably won't get into speculation about what those events are, but it's deliberately broad. Ms CLUTTERHAM: Fair enough. I guess you could read into article 6 words to the effect of 'to the extent that is reasonably practicable'. So, if we were engaged in 20 different conflicts around the world—touch wood; that will never happen—then we would not have the resources to perhaps do what we could have done had we not been involved in those 20 different conflicts et cetera. Mrs Darlington : Yes, correct. 'Reasonably practical' is the way for a government decision about what is within their power as well. Ms CLUTTERHAM: Thanks very much, everyone. CHAIR: We do have a few more moments, Senator Collins, if you have any follow up questions. Senator COLLINS: Thank you, Chair. This is in relation to the Vuvale union article 4(4)(d), 'strengthening in the security of critical infrastructure and technology', in terms of trying to reconcile part (4)(a), which is 'transformation of their economies to net zero emissions' and part (4)(d), strengthening the security of critical infrastructure. For example, if we're trying to support Fiji in the take-up of solar panels, which would reduce emissions, but they're being manufactured in a country in which we would consider having an overreliance on that particular energy generation to be a national security risk, how do you start to reconcile those things which are now being put into a treaty? Ms Hutton : As to the premise of your question, in terms of how we're supporting the security of critical infrastructure, it's exactly as you've described it. Through the Vuvale union, we are looking to support Fiji to develop its renewable energy. We are looking to support some of their adaptation projects. We are looking to strengthen the security around their data centre, as an example, and we are looking to develop their own cybersecurity capability through the development of a government cybersecurity centre of excellence. We will be supporting Fiji to strengthen its critical infrastructure. I think, though, what you're talking about is when it comes to non-Pacific island countries being involved in that critical infrastructure that's the area where we've agreed through the Vuvale union that we want to come together to discuss and to understand what the implications might be for not just our own security, as I said, but also the security of the region. Senator COLLINS: So it's balancing the need for renewable energy generation. But there's also the fact that neither Fiji nor Australia actually manufacture the critical infrastructure needed for renewable energy generation. Ms Hutton : That's correct, Senator, and you'll see subarticle 6—as you pointed out earlier, I think—sets out what we both consider to be critical infrastructure, and energy infrastructure is part of that. Senator COLLINS: We've got four more minutes left; anybody else can jump in if they want to. Ports is an interesting one. How's the security going with the ports? Have we given a lot of support for boosting the security at ports? Ms Hutton : Yes. For Fiji, their interest is in not only the security of their ports but also the development of their ports. Through the loan component of the Vuvale union, we're certainly looking at how we can support Fiji to further develop its port infrastructure. Senator COLLINS: Thank you for your time. CHAIR: Thank you. Do any of our witnesses want to make any further comments, make a closing remark or add to an answer that's already been provided? No? Wonderful. I'd like to thank you all for your attendance today. You will be sent a copy of the transcript of your evidence and will have the opportunity to request corrections to transcription errors. If you've been asked to provide any additional information, which I don't believe there have been any requests for, the secretariat will be in touch. I'd like to thank all our committee members, the secretariat, Hansard and all of our witnesses for joining us today. Committee adjourned at 14:58